10th October 1939 - Port Eynon

The Proms of 1939, commenced on the first night, 12th August.  The First Night began with the National Anthem. There were other performances from Edward Elgar and Richard Wagner.  There were further Nights during August. 

Night 18, 1st September 1939, and the second of the season, was abruptly ended, following Hitler's invasion of Poland, earlier on the 1st.  Wartime arrangements for broadcasting came into force and the BBC orchestra withdraw from London and the Promenade concerts.

The Last Night of the Proms, would have been 7th October 1939.

Neville Chamberlain
Prime Minister

Tuesday 10th October 1939, the British Prime Minister was  Neville Chamberlain and the American President was  Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States

House of Commons
1939

During the sitting of the House of Commons on the 10th October 1939, the topics discussed by the MPs of the day in regards to the British Army included

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rum Ration

 

Mr. Mathers asked the Secretary of State for War whether there are any alternatives offered at the time the rum ration is offered to men on service in this country; and what steps are taken to let men know that alternatives are available? 

 

The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Hore-Belisha)

The regulation clearly provides that cocoa or tea is an alternative to rum on the special occasions when an extra stimulant is certified by the medical officer to be necessary in the interests of the health of the troops, and cocoa has, in fact, proved to be a favourite alternative during the inclement weather conditions recently experienced.

Mr. Mathers 

he point of the question is whether the attention of the troops is drawn to this alternative.

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I think they are well aware of the alternative, and, if not, I will see what more can be done.

Mr. J. J. Davidson 

Would they like an issue of grapefruit?

Enlistment

 

Mr. Maunder

asked the Secretary of State for War what action is being taken with regard to men now offering them selves for enlistment in advance of the date when they are liable to be called up compulsorily; and whether full advantage is being taken of these voluntary offers of service?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I propose to make a statement to-morrow.

Territorial Officers (Pay)

 

Mr. Stokes

asked the Secretary of State for War why Territorial officers called to the Colours at the outbreak of war are still not in receipt of their pay; and whether he will take immediate steps to ensure that there is no further delay in arranging for their payment?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave to the hon. Member for Durham, Houghton-le-Spring (Mr. William J. Stewart) on Wednesday last. The officers in question should have received their pay on 30th September, when the first monthly issue, for all those who had joined before that date, became due. If any such officer has not yet received an issue of pay, he should communicate at once with his command paymaster, or with the army agents, if he has elected to draw pay from them.

Viscountess Astor 

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that many soldiers wives have been literally without one penny of any kind for four weeks?

Mr. Hore-Belisha 

I am very astonished to hear that, but if the Noble Lady will tell me what cases she has in mind I will do my best to redress the wrong immediately.

Mr. Buchanan

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the wives of regular soldiers who were called up six weeks ago are still awaiting an allowance I have sent cases to the right hon. Gentleman and I cannot even get him to look at them.

Mr. Hore-Belisha 

It must be because there is some defect in the particulars. There is no intention of delay in this matter, and I am extremely distressed to hear of any such case. I will do my best to put it right.

Mr. Buchanan

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a defect in the particulars does not feed the wife, and that six weeks is an extremely long time for a working-class woman to be without money?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Of course I am aware of it, and of course it will not feed the wife, but if there is no proper address or some failure to supply information, there naturally is delay; but I can assure any hon. Gentleman that if he has a case of that kind I will put it right at once.

Mr. Lewis Jones

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in one case single officers were told that no pay was available until 4th September and that married officers were able to get only 10 per cent. of their month's salary?

Mr. Hore-Belisha 

f that is so, and my hon. Friend will be good enough to give me particulars, I will take appropriate steps; but it is a very general statement. Whenever I have looked into a case of the kind I have taken immediate steps to rectify it, but there has usually been some explanation. I would not justify delay, but perhaps my hon. Friend will tell me the facts

 

Mr. Stokes

May I ask the Minister whether his statement means that the notification issued to officers that they cannot expect any pay until the middle of November has now been altered by what he has said?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Officers cannot expect any pay until the middle of November? What officers?

Mr. Stokes 

Officers of the Territorial Army.

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I do not recognise any such instruction. It does not seem to me to be a natural instruction to issue.

Mr. Stokes 

That is the source of my information, that no pay will be available until the middle of November.

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I assure the hon. Gentleman that there is, obviously, some error. Officers are entitled to a month's pay in arrear, but, if they desire, they can make application to the agent or the paymaster and may be given advances of pay. Those are the regulations, and I cannot reconcile them with what the hon. Gentleman has stated.

Mr. G. Griffiths

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it is a shame that officers' wives should have to go on public assistance, and is it not time that they had the money without going there?

Militia Camps

 

The following Question stood upon the Order Paper in the name of Mr STOKES:

19. To ask the Secretary of State for War how many persons, in total, the miltia camps at Bulford, Perham Downs, Tidworth, Larkhill and Winterbourne Gunner are built to accommodate; and how many militiamen will be accommodated in each?

Sir Joseph Lamb

On a point of Order. Before this question is asked may I inquire whether it is in the public interest that a question of this kind should be answered?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

The hon. Member will, I hope, appreciate that, in present circumstances, it would be undesirable to publish the figures for which he asks.

Mr. Stokes 

May I ask, without disclosing any figures, whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that the cost of the camps in this area amounts to an average of more than £300 per head of the militiamen?

Mr. Stokes 

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will state the cost of the sewage work at Devizes on the London road measuring in extent 2,425 yards?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

The work on the camp at Devizes has not yet been completed. In due course, it will be possible to give the total cost of the sewerage scheme as a whole, but not the separate cost of any particular section.

Mr. Stokes 

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this part of the sewerage work has already been contracted for by the local authority for the sum of £9,075, and that it is reckoned that the War Office are paying something of the order of £15,000 for the same work?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I was not aware of that.

Mr. Stokes 

Will the Minister please look into the matter?

Inoculation

 

Mr. Leach

asked the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers suffering from the effects of inoculation have received treatment at the hospital at Maid-stone during the past month?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

None, Sir.

Mr. Leach

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that every soldier now knows that he has no need to undergo this dangerous operation?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I have confined myself to answering the question on the Paper. The hon. Gentleman now raises a different question, and perhaps he will be kind enough to put it down.

 Horses

 

Mr. T. Williams ask

ed the Secretary of State for War what complaints he has received regarding the requisitioning of horses; whether he is aware that in one case three armleted civilians visited a stud farm and, without producing any authority, proceeded to examine a number of horses and to brand nine of them; that the owner was informed that he would be paid a total of £435 for stock the cost price of which would be more than three times that sum; how such prices are arrived at; and whether he will provide for the right of appeal against unjust assessments by the owners of stock requisitioned for national purposes?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

There have been few complaints. In the case to which the hon. Member refers, the purchasers were duly accredited and would have produced written authority, if they had been requested to do so. The prices were considered to be the market value at the present time, in each case. Owners who are dissatisfied with the prices tendered have a right to appeal to a county court judge, and the owner in this case was so informed.

Mr. T. Williams 

Has an appeal been lodged by the person referred to in the question?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I could not say.

Mr. T. Williams 

Is it generally understood by breeders of horses that they have a right of appeal?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

In this case the person from whom the horses were purchased was so informed, and I imagine that that would invariably be the case.

Mr. Boulton

Had these people compulsory powers to requisition horses?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Yes, Sir.

Brigadier-General Sir Ernest Makins

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that, according to all written regulations, cavalry officers were promised that in the event of mobilisation their chargers would be taken over by the remount department up to £120, whereas now they are receiving £60 maximum; whether it is intended to give effect to the original undertaking; and why only half the price is being paid in this case for cavalry horses?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

What the regulations lay down is that privately owned chargers may be taken over at a price to be fixed by agreement, such price not to exceed the maximum amount which might be paid in the event of the loss of the horse by reason of military service. This maximum for the most expensive type of charger is £120. It was recently decided not to pay more than £60 for any horse now being acquired but no compulsion was put on any officer to sell his horse.

Mr. R. C. Morrison

Would it be true to say that cavalry officers who expected to get £120 for their chargers would be the chargers themselves?

Sir Ernest Makins

Are we to take it that they are not compelled to sell their horses?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

My hon. and gallant Friend may take it that the officers are not compelled to sell their horses?

Commander Sir Archibald Southby

Is my right hon. Friend aware that remount officers are buying for £60-odd horses which are often worth to farmers over 200 guineas?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

We have just dealt with this question. There was a question on the Paper about it, and I explained that there was a right of appeal.

 

Agricultural Work (Soldier Labour)

 

Major-General Sir Alfred Knox

asked the Secretary of State for War how many soldiers are now employed by farmers for work on the land; whether he is satisfied that such employment does not interfere with military training; and whether he will put a stop to this practice, in view of the fact that there are numbers of unemployed men registered in Employment Exchanges who could do the work, and for whom farmers applied but cancelled their applications when they ascertained that soldier labour would cost them less?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I cannot give the numbers, as these are left to the discretion of the local military authorities. One of the conditions of the employment is that it does not interfere with military training. Soldier labour has been made available at the request of the Ministry of Agriculture, owing to the shortage of civilian labour in certain districts. The farmer who employs it is required to pay to public funds the statutory wage which he would have to pay if the men were civilians. It is part of the arrangement that soldier labour will not be demanded if the Employment Exchanges are able to supply civilian labour.

Sir Alfred Knox

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that if we are trying to turn out soldiers in three months it is essential that they should train the whole time, especially if they have to compete with people who have been trained intensively for something like two years; and that it is essential to keep them on their job and not to let them go off into side-lines?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Yes, Sir. I agree in principle with my hon. and gallant Friend, but agriculture was in a difficulty and an appeal was made to us to help. It has been done in other countries.

Sir Alfred Knox

Could not labour be obtained from the Employment Exchanges?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

No, Sir. It was part of the arrangement that this labour would not be so used if the Employment Exchanges were able to supply sufficient men.

Mr. Benjamin Smith

Would the right hon. Gentleman see that the money earned by the soldiers, which he says is paid into a public fund, is paid to the men who do the work? If they are to be soldiers let them be soldiers.

Mr. Hore-Belisha

They are better off by the arrangement which I have described.

Mr. Benjamin Smith

They do twice the work.

Mr. Hicks

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think it is desirable, and not only in the agricultural industry, that where civilian labour is required to carry on the economic life of the country, the Reserved List of occupations should be reconsidered, instead of men being called up into the Army first and then being put to work?

Colonel Baldwin-Webb

Is this arrangement of a temporary nature to cover the harvest period, or is it to go on indefinitely?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

It is temporary to assist in a particular difficulty. In reply to the supplementary question of the hon. Member for East Woolwich (Mr. Hicks), the men are protected by the Reserved List of occupations from enlistment. If they are known to be on the Reserved List we have returned men from the Territorial Army who have been previously engaged and who are now required as key men.

Young Soldiers (Service Abroad) 

 

Mr. Kirkwood

asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the undertaking given that no militiaman under 20 years of age should be sent abroad for military service, he will consider the case of boys who joined the Territorials before war at 18 years of age and who are now being sent abroad as they become 19 years old; why is this differentiation made; and whether he will put an end to this anomaly by ensuring that boys who joined voluntarily shall not be sent overseas at an earlier age than those who were called up under the Military Training Act? 

Mr. Davidson 

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will take steps to prevent lads of 19 years of age and under, already serving with His Majesty's Forces, from going overseas until they reach the age of 20?

Mr. Burke

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Gunner Kenneth Moore, No. 1462307, has been sent overseas; and why this has been done in view of the Government's policy that no man under the age of 20 years should be sent overseas?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

On the introduction of the National Service (Armed Forces) Bill, I informed the House that we were taking out of the active Forces preparing for overseas all existing men who were under the age of 19, and that I would give an assurance that, if possible, before sending any man called up under the Bill out of the country when under the age of 20, I would make a statement to the House. This undertaking, which was accepted by the House, has been and will be observed. The reason for the differentiation is that the Regular and Territorial soldier has always been under the obligation to serve in the field under the terms of his voluntary enlistment.

Brigadier-General Sir Henry Croft

Will my right hon. Friend give an undertaking that men who have joined the Territorial Army at the age of 18 will not be precluded from going on active service at the age of 19, as there appears to be considerable misunderstanding? Many units have an average age of very little over 19 or 19I years, and if this condition were insisted upon it would deprive those units of the opportunity of standing beside our Allies.

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I can give that undertaking. I am aware of the feeling of young men that they should be allowed to participate in active service.

 

Mr. Burke

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this young man to whom I refer was only 19 years of age, and the undertaking given to the House was that no one should be sent abroad if he was under 20? A volunteer of 19 is just as old and no older than a Territorial of that age.

Mr. Hore-Belisha 

I must apologise to the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Burke). I omitted to give the last part of my answer. In the case mentioned by the hon. Member for Burnley, the soldier, according to the age given on attestation, is over 19 years of age.

Mr. T. Williams

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have sent him particulars of a case from my division of two brothers, one 18 and the other 20, who were sent abroad? Is not that really a breach of the spirit of the right hon. Gentleman's undertaking?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

In any such case, where a mistake has been made, I have undertaken to bring the man back at once.

Viscountess Astor 

But if one applies for these men, as I have done in several cases, they are not sent back.

Mr. Speaker rose 

—

Mr. Kirkwood

May I not put one supplementary, Mr. Speaker, on my own question? Does not the right hon. Gentleman's reply mean that the volunteer is going to be placed in a worse position than the conscript?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

From the volunteer's point of view, I think it would generally be true to say that he considers himself in a better position.

Mr. Speaker rose 

—

Mr. Davidson 

May I not ask a supplementary, Mr. Speaker, arising out of my own question? Does the right hon. Gentleman not realise that when he gave that undertaking to the House it was generally supposed to mean that no lad of under 20 would be sent to France? In view of that, and as he has trained men of 20 and over, would he not consider replacing those young lads in France by men of over 20?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I think the hon. Member is under a complete misapprehension. Would it further reassure the House if I told hon. Members that at this moment we are taking out of the Forces for overseas all men of under 19—and they are very numerous—and we are not proposing to send them to France although they have enlisted again?

 

Gas and Oxygen Analgesia

 

Dr. Edith Summerskill

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will advise the medical staffs of military hospitals that, whenever possible, they should use gas and oxygen analgesia in the dressing of war wounds of a severe character?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I am advised that the medical staff of military hospitals are fully aware of the value of this treatment, and will use it in all appropriate cases.

 

All the previous readings can be found from the Hansard.  The official record of the debates from the House of Commons.  Even some of the debates are long they do make very interesting reading.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, mid-day on 10th October, overhead Port Eynon, Gower.  The aircraft Blenheim L1219 was flying close the houses of the residents.  The aircraft was on a return leg of a cross-country training, having taken off from RAF Bicester.

 

The aircraft was heading out to sea in the direction of Oxwich Point, where it was seen to lose height, before it ditched and disappeared beneath the waves. the bodies of the crew were never recovered. 

 

The names of the crew were

 

Sergeant Frederick George Bryant, aged 27 years.  Came from Kenton, Middlesex

Sergeant Phillip Geoffrey Vezey Hemsely, aged 23.  Came from Putney, London

Aircraft 2nd Class James Shearer, aged 22.

 

They belonged to the 108 Squadron, RAF.  They are commemorated at Runnymede Memorial

 

1st March 2017, the file Sergeant P G Hemsley, Sergeant F G Bryant, Aircraft J Shearer: missing believed killed, Blenheim L1219, 108 Squadron; 10 October 1939 was opened at the National Archives, Kew

 

Runnymede Memorial